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  #21  
Old 10-21-2011, 06:10 PM
theharpiece theharpiece is offline
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what are you losing there though, like 5-10 seconds?
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  #22  
Old 10-22-2011, 06:40 AM
karaokelove karaokelove is offline
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Might not be in the rules per say, but I can tell you this as a former judge, that in no way will any judge allow a player to stall the way they do online.
Allowing a judge to make calls that aren't backed up by official rules is just asking for favoritism. I'm not saying you're making a bad call; stalling should definitely be dealt with, but it should be dealt with by altering the rules that govern it, not by making snap decisions in 1 player's favor.

I just think there should be a time limit on how long you can take during a round. Whatever else is in effect as far as the match timer goes, I can deal with. But a player should not be able to use up 20 minutes deciding what to do on his turn. I don't care if that means he's going to run out of time and I'm going to win. I don't want to win that way. It's boring and moronic.

And I didn't even consider Sir-Cala's point, which is valid. Sure you might only be losing 5 to 10 seconds, but when they do it for every one of your actions, that time really adds up. Say you make 4 attacks/round that your opponent stalls out. Assuming each stall only costs you an additional 5 seconds, that's still 20 seconds/round that they're costing you. So let's say the game goes into round 20, which is very reasonable. Well, your opponent has successfully stalled you by 400 seconds, or roughly 7 minutes. And that's just assuming a 5 second stall on basic attacks. When you figure in additional factors such as mastermind, super senses, shape change, probability control, or any of the other things that require a button click, it can get rather ridiculous. The only workaround I can think of is for the timer to stop counting down as soon as the attack is confirmed. Basically, once control is out of the player's hand, his timer should cease counting down.

Last edited by karaokelove; 10-22-2011 at 06:48 AM.
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  #23  
Old 10-22-2011, 07:24 PM
Sir_Cala Sir_Cala is offline
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Yet again another problem with the dual timer.....

Okay I lost by points. Time was up. I can accept that.
However look how much time is left for both players. 6:49 for me 6:10 for the freak.
To me that means there is 12 minutes left in the match.

Because of the 12 minutes showing I kept my Scarlet witch in range so she could use PC on my opponents figure. If I knew I had less than a minute I would have withdrawn my figure out of range and make him move instead of getting an attack.

This is where the one timer for both players in the middle should be counting down and they share this time. A 50 minute timer that counts down.

Time to break out the old school wizkids timer for the online game.

Last edited by Sir_Cala; 10-22-2011 at 07:30 PM.
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  #24  
Old 10-23-2011, 12:21 AM
theharpiece theharpiece is offline
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or you could use a clock or watch.....
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  #25  
Old 10-23-2011, 12:21 AM
theharpiece theharpiece is offline
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but I do agree the 2 clocks should equal total game time
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  #26  
Old 10-25-2011, 07:34 PM
Crixt Crixt is offline
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A few tweaks could be made, but the clocks operate in such a fashion for a reason:

Total match timer: This is necessary in tournaments because occasionally, even if nobody is stalling, a match can take forever (many small point value pieces on each team, or remaining pieces on both teams have horribly low attack values)

Separate chess timers: Because there will always be a match timer, there have to be chess timers. Otherwise, as soon as one person kills one piece, they will just run down the clock and win.

Total match timer < Total of chess timers: Because there are separate chess timers in a game with a match timer, in a case where a match is drawn out, but not due to stalling (Like my first examples), you wouldn't want it to get to the point where both opponents have < a minute on their chess timer, and are no longer playing to win, only to take less time per turn, leading to both players spamming the end turn button.

Total Match timer needs to be hidden: If both players could easily see the total time remaining, once it got lower than the current leader's chess timer, they just run out the clock, game over. That's not good for the game.

I only have one gripe with the system, and that's that the gap between the chess timer total and the game timer is too large. It's roughly 12 minutes, so I've had a match where the player with an obvious advantage who was bound to win had over 10 minutes left on his clock, but was at a slight point disadvantage, and then lost with his opponent's chess timer at under a minute. That's the big flaw in the system. The difference in clocks needs to be pushed closer to 5 or 6 minutes.
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Last edited by Crixt; 10-25-2011 at 07:39 PM.
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  #27  
Old 10-25-2011, 09:03 PM
Crixt Crixt is offline
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Update: Just had a match end with 14:30 left on the combined clocks. That's just absurd.
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  #28  
Old 10-25-2011, 09:12 PM
Faxan Faxan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crixt View Post
Update: Just had a match end with 14:30 left on the combined clocks. That's just absurd.
Keep in mind that a tournament round will not go beyond 50 minutes, this allows the winner a chance to step away for a few minutes, if necessary, before the next round starts. Since the first round of your tournament started at 445pm EDT then it ended at the proper time of 535pm EDT.
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  #29  
Old 10-25-2011, 09:51 PM
Crixt Crixt is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Faxan View Post
Keep in mind that a tournament round will not go beyond 50 minutes, this allows the winner a chance to step away for a few minutes, if necessary, before the next round starts. Since the first round of your tournament started at 445pm EDT then it ended at the proper time of 535pm EDT.
Oh, I'm aware of all those specifics, if you'll read my previous post, I fully support the system. My only complaint is that almost 15 minutes can be really big. Say, if your opponent is playing so slow he'll use up almost his entire clock, and has a point lead. If you use even half your allotted time, merely playing twice as fast as him, you could still be in big trouble. If you want to keep the match clock as is, reducing each chess clock by 5 minutes would give players a more realistic idea of how much time is left for them.

TL;DR version: the current clock setup often punishes the opponent of a staller as much as or more than it punishes the staller.

50 minutes per round is fine. My only issue there is that if both rounds finish in say 20 minutes (common) a half hour break is unnecessary.
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Last edited by Crixt; 10-25-2011 at 09:54 PM.
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  #30  
Old 10-26-2011, 09:33 PM
sniksder sniksder is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theharpiece View Post
I can't see how you can say something so wildly incorrect.....The chess clock keeps this from happening. If there is 40 minutes left in the match and you dont move for 20 of those minutes you lose, for stalling. Use your heads people and if you're going to whine and kvetch about the rules at least pick something where there is actually a problem....
Sorry the clock DOES NOT keep that from happening, when you stall and the warning comes up, you click on okay and keep on stalling so YES someone can stall out as much times as they want.

Have had it done to me, so I know it can happen.

So please do not proceed to tell me what can and can not happen. And anytime you want I can show you just how it is done.
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